Rusted Solution vs. POR 15

peteGSX

peteGSX

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Hey guys, interested in some feedback on what might be the best way to deal with the rusty tank. Looking like the Kat tank is repairable but I'll still need to deal with the rusty internals.

This Rusted Solutions stuff that Derek found looks the goods:

https://rustedsolutions.com.au/product/1l-rust-remover-liquid-ready-mix/

But I've had good success with the POR15 tank repair kit on the wee beastie.

The big question in my mind is... if I put the rust remover soak in the tank it'll get rid of all the rust, but what happens next? I think we all know it's not going to immediately get put to use and have fuel in it for at least several months after I do it (probably more like 6 months). Is just squirting some WD or something around inside going to be a suitable way to stop it rusting again until it gets regular use?

With the POR15 kit I at least know not only will the rust be dealt with but it will have the liner added so it won't rust again...
 
Pete go and talk to that bloke at rusted solutions, Dereck is right it's good stuff and he will also tell you not to use por as l think it's designed as an external coating not a fuel tank liner. I have got his product but haven't used it yet but my mate has and likes the results. Instead of filling it with modern fuel Pete how about using deisel or something similar.
 
I have used both;

The rusted solutions is a rust remover, works good provided you can submerge the item and agitate. But its not a cleaner, didnt work so well on oily residue or the dried out petrol "varnish". The marine clean in the por 15 kit is a great cleaner, for that stuff it works well.

As a rust remover rusted solutions works about 3 times better than the "metal ready" in a por15 kit, it eats rust like no tomorrow, and leaves a clean surface. Perfect for paint or you would assume a liner.(liners are nothing but paint) neither product prevents flash rust effectively, metal ready is slighltly better on that front, but not much.

You would assume once all the rust is gone, and the remaing metal is sound. then all you need to do is keep the oxygen out and there would be no more rusting.
so put some motor oil, fish oil, or maybe diesel to store it, or if in use keep it full of fuel.

Or put a liner...
my dissapointment with the liners; (or liners are shit) This is based on 3 attempts to "repair" a popup tank.

The liners failed as the tank was so rusted the metal is porous so the rust keeps going under the liner. The liner eventualy fails with a blister that cracks.

As por 15 is not flexiable, so cracks easily, The big bugaboo now is that nothing gets it off, no solvent will even soften it (what you read online about acetone etc is BS) the only remover is fire. Repairing your tank just got a whole lot harder. and you have to remove it as its a slick non stick surface nothing sticks to it you can not recoat over its self.

other liners
Caswell is 2 part epoxy, impervious to every thing, dries hard and suffered the same fate as POR 15.

Redkote
basically a paint stays flexible so might not crack, but italso has problems curing, if it pools it never will as it skins. Is not the most durable surface, is easy to peel it off, or damage. (1 pin prick and the liner is useless.)

In short they are all snake oil...and will not do what they advertise.
you cant beat solid steel, so if youve got a silver Kat, and the tank is rusty, spend the money buy a new tank, look after it and enjoy a lot less drama.
But if its a popup, your screwed...


Cheers John
 
peteGSX said:
The big question in my mind is... if I put the rust remover soak in the tank it'll get rid of all the rust, but what happens next? I think we all know it's not going to immediately get put to use and have fuel in it for at least several months after I do it (probably more like 6 months). Is just squirting some WD or something around inside going to be a suitable way to stop it rusting again until it gets regular use?
Click to expand...
If you use phosphoric acid to remove the rust, it leaves a phosphate coating on the steel, acts as a rust preventative, especially if you add a little oil. I've actually got some exposed, phosphoric acid treared nuts on the suspension of the alfa, and it gets driven in all weather. No rust after 12 months on those.
 
Hey Pete used Por15 heaps and works fine for me (and my painter who also uses it on most tank restos he does). I'm not sure what he uses to remove the rust (I think its acid)but he does use the POR15 tank liners. I had plenty of the marine clean left over and was using it for all sorts of cleaning jobs especially ones involving fuel residue.
 
If you eve decided to clean a skungy oil cooler with marine clean, don't do what I did and instead of leaving it in for an hour, forget about it and come back to it three days later to find hard, flakey deposits all over and through the cooler.

I did a POR 15 (or was it KBS? Can't really remember!) kit on the Alfa's tank. easy as.

I suspect there's more rust at your place than mine pkay.
 
Cheers guys, planning on chatting more with Derek at Power O for sure, this is not an urgent decision as the tank's still away being looked at.

The POR15 in the wee beastie has been great, but that tank wasn't quite as bad as the Kat tank.

I still have a litre of Marine Clean somewhere here I think and yes it is awesome stuff, and yep Ben don't leave it too long!! It can get nasty.

John, I 100% understand the liner concerns, especially if the prep on the tank can't be spot on.

I've had a look around for tanks and they're either a similar price to what the repair of this one is and will need repairing (and possibly rust treatmeant as well) or they're out of my short term budget (read, they'll delay the build probably 3 to 6 more months). Most of the latter are in the US or the UK so there's quite expensive shipping associated with that price as well...
 
Hey Pete I was reading a brochure the other day from KBS which seemed to offer solutions to your problem, I believe Harts sell it.
 
cut n past from mick hone web site said:
44110-49304-YD8 KATANA FUEL TANK
not in original 13L Silver *** see notes


  • 44110-49304-YD8 comes in a non-original Katana silver colour and has no tank stickers on it.
    We have brand new genuine Suzuki tanks in stock in original -13L Silver with ‘SUZUKI’ stickers applied and all cleared over.
    Contact Mick Hone Motorcycles for details on part number 44100-49300-13L (price $1099 as of July 2017)

Retail Price$721.05
Qty in Stock1
Click to expand...

Popup tank cost this much, and its still a rusted out piece of crap... just sayin
 
Shano, that seems along the lines of the POR15 kit, a little cheaper though and it does say it's flexible too.

John, yep, ouch... tanks are not cheap! That price for me the way things are going will probably put a June 2019 date on my build...

Will chat with Derek and anyone else who cares to listen/chime in around the brekky table tomorrow.
 
what is the reason for a liner? Is it because of a leak or just trying to resurface the inside after rust removal?

If a leak....can that not be welded/braised if you left it open long enough so ALL traces of fuel and fumes have evaporated?

Not sure if welding can be done...heard allot of stories about why you should not do it, but if it is completely, I mean completely dry inside (left open for 6 months or so) would it be do able?

I ask, because the tank on 177 has had the "Kream" liner put in it years ago and its all flaking off and there is light rust under it. So I will need to do something.

Would think if it is leaking by the seams that welding (if do able) would be best with no liner gunk.
 
I agree with John that there are times when a new tank is the better option. Having had rust issues with a tank that involved seam leaks and metal so thin after what appeared to be several acid treatments to get rid of the rust by the P.O. a new tank was in the long run good value. In my case the rusted tank was beyond saving and had to be replaced.

Average condition used tank at the time = $350.

Liner kit = $95.

Sanding pads, primer, thinners, 13L mix, decals, clearcoat = $170.

DIY so labour = $0

Quoted price (back then) to prep, paint, apply decals and clearcoat tank = $320, and that was the lowest price!

Current quote for prep, prime, colour, decals and clearcoat = $590 lowest if I supply the decals.

At the time a new Kat tank in 13L with decals ready to go from Suzuki was $540. Bought a new tank and had no more rust issues, spent almost the same for the new tank as repairing and painting the old tank would have cost however, the new tank was perfect and rust free.

Fast forward to today and I am having rust issues with the current Kat tank, different Kat. At this years SOO John and I were talking about tanks and the trouble he had with finding a replacement tank for the Darkside. Not as difficult to find an 1100 tank however, plenty of luck needs to be going your way if you want a decent used tank. As John discovered when his "decent" tank arrived - it wasn't! Liner problem and then still having to prep and paint and buy the materials. Bugger that, I bought a new tank. Took the 13L painted option without decals applied, bought them and will put them on myself. Carbs will now stay clean, fuel filter isn't full of ultra fine rust and won't have bog and paint issues for the next 30 years.

Yeah it is a lot of money, until you break down in the middle of nowhere and have to recover a bike just because a pox ridden rusty tank has jammed up the carbs, don't ask it wasn't me that time.

Like John, just sayin'

Cheers.
 
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Shin-Ken 1074 said:
I agree with John that there are times when a new tank is the better option. Having had rust issues with a tank that involved seam leaks and metal so thin after what appeared to be several acid treatments to get rid of the rust by the P.O. a new tank was in the long run good value. In my case the rusted tank was beyond saving and had to be replaced.

Average condition used tank at the time = $350.

Liner kit = $95.

Sanding pads, primer, thinners, 13L mix, decals, clearcoat = $170.

DIY so labour = $0

Quoted price (back then) to prep, paint, apply decals and clearcoat tank = $320, and that was the lowest price!

Current quote for prep, prime, colour, decals and clearcoat = $590 lowest if I supply the decals.

At the time a new Kat tank in 13L with decals ready to go from Suzuki was $540. Bought a new tank and had no more rust issues, spent almost the same for the new tank as repairing and painting the old tank would have cost however, the new tank was perfect and rust free.

Fast forward to today and I am having rust issues with the current Kat tank, different Kat. At this years SOO John and I were talking about tanks and the trouble he had with finding a replacement tank for the Darkside. Not as difficult to find an 1100 tank however, plenty of luck needs to be going your way if you want a decent used tank. As John discovered when his "decent" tank arrived - it wasn't! Liner problem and then still having to prep and paint and buy the materials. Bugger that, I bought a new tank. Took the 13L painted option without decals applied, bought them and will put them on myself. Carbs will now stay clean, fuel filter isn't full of ultra fine rust and won't have bog and paint issues for the next 30 years.

Yeah it is a lot of money, until you break down in the middle of nowhere and have to recover the Kat just because a pox ridden rusty tank has jammed up the carbs, don't ask it wasn't me that time.

Like John, just sayin'

Cheers.
Click to expand...

If you can get one I agree.....but a Canadian LTD Kat......good luck finding a replacement tank of any kind....so in the event you can't get a new tank, does my note above make sense or is it doable ?

Thanks
 
MRGGG said:
If you can get one I agree.....but a Canadian LTD Kat......good luck finding a replacement tank of any kind....so in the event you can't get a new tank, does my note above make sense or is it doable ?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Lucky for us here in Oz Suzuki still stock 13L Kat tanks. Very lucky.

Cheers.
 
MRGGG said:
what is the reason for a liner? Is it because of a leak or just trying to resurface the inside after rust removal?

If a leak....can that not be welded/braised if you left it open long enough so ALL traces of fuel and fumes have evaporated?

Not sure if welding can be done...heard allot of stories about why you should not do it, but if it is completely, I mean completely dry inside (left open for 6 months or so) would it be do able?

I ask, because the tank on 177 has had the "Kream" liner put in it years ago and its all flaking off and there is light rust under it. So I will need to do something.

Would think if it is leaking by the seams that welding (if do able) would be best with no liner gunk.
Click to expand...

Kreem is shit. Everyone I've heard of that has used it has had it fail.
Welding/brazing is fine with adequate precautions taken. Pickle the inside of the tank, and don't worry about a liner unless there's a pinhole somewhere. The only reason I used a liner on the tank of my alfa was that there was porosity on a seam that I just couldn't get to clean up and not leak.


Shin-Ken - out of curiosity do you still have the rusted tank kicking around?
 
Gammaboy said:
Kreem is shit. Everyone I've heard of that has used it has had it fail.
Welding/brazing is fine with adequate precautions taken. Pickle the inside of the tank, and don't worry about a liner unless there's a pinhole somewhere. The only reason I used a liner on the tank of my alfa was that there was porosity on a seam that I just couldn't get to clean up and not leak.


Shin-Ken - out of curiosity do you still have the rusted tank kicking around?
Click to expand...

Hi Ben, nah I no longer have the tank that had turned into a rust farm, swapped it for a set of shocks, sorry.
 
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